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stingshp

Posts: 278
Status: Offline

Cool Guys
One of my project cars returned from the paint shop a few weeks back for final assembly .
One part on the list was front eyebrow trim that was removed in it's previous front end modification . I had reconstructed the front nose sheet metal back to factory design with the help of a restorer in California which provided me with measurements and the words "No two were the same" .Along with a couple of dozen pictures of different angles i was able to return it to original design and send it to the paint shop .
The Eyebrow trim I made from 304L stainless steel ,in the past i had used Brass or Copper and had it plated .Lately I've been having a lot of problems with platers ,Bad plating ,lost parts ETC. ,Plus I wasn't interested in waiting any longer to get the car done .
The 304L S.S. was flat bar stock 1/4" X 1/2" .I used 304L cause it was softer and would bend easier without heat .
The end profile of the trim was a crowned section in the center top and tapered to an tight radius towards both sides. I Blue dyed the the face and layed out scribe lines on edges and center line for crown. There were 3 pieces needed and each one was made longer so I had a run off at each end while shaping with grinder . I've been using an 120 grit flap disc on the brass/ copper moldings ,but S.Steel required me to use 80 grit disc .I made up a profile gauge from Aluminum to check progress while making complete passes from one end to the other without stopping or changeing travel speed. This would give me consistent shape without high /low spots in strip .The 3 pieces which were about 34" long took 1 hour to shape at which time I headed for 1" belt sander starting with 120 grit working my way to 400 grit while dye coating each grit change so I removed previous grit marks .
The big arc around bumperette fortunately a flat arc not a compound curve ,I made a wooden pattern from hard wood which had a smaller radius to take up for spring back of bar stock .The strip bent around it smooth with no cracking or flat spots in radius .The real time consuming part was the tuning of bends ,that ate up a good half a day .I had finally acquired a big Anvil with a nice Horn on it ,between that and a brass hammer the fine tuning of bends progressed . Once it layed down down to the body as it should I marked the mount holes from the back ,centered the makes and set the drill press depth stop to and 1/8 inch so as not to go through front side . #8 stainless screws were trimmed of their heads and silver soldered in to holes . There were 2 joining stainless trim covers which I made from old stainless sink which was in my Fine Junk pile and again silver soldered the studs to the back.
The rough bolt up went smooth as did the final Buffing . This allowed me to complete the front "everything" I attached some pic's to go along with process .
GordonB



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    tinbasher1028

    Posts: 88
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    Hi Gord: Nice work!! I can appreciate the time and effort.

    J.Poole

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    billsmetal

    Posts: 26
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    Great Work Gordon! Stainless is a bear to work with. Looks like you tamed the bear and then some...Very Impressive.
    Bill Gibson

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    harleycruiser

    Posts: 10
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    Gordon that is way cool, what an inspiration you guys are.
    I have one question; you talk about dye coating between each sanding. What kind of dye do you use? I have done a lot of aluminum polishing and always have a problem knowing when all my coarser sand marks have been removed. Always need to go back and re sand.

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    stingshp

    Posts: 278
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    Hey Steve
    I used Blue Dykem {machinist bluing}
    Sharpy and Magic Marker take a long time to dry ,If not fully dry they clog the sand paper.
    Chaulk is what a friend of mine used and swears by it ,which I will try next .
    How's the Putt coming along ,I see some new pic's in your album .
    GordonB

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    harleycruiser

    Posts: 10
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    Gordon thank I will pick up some that will help a lot in the polishing.
    Yea still working on my scoot, been making some bags but havenít said much in here because I am cheating using F?*kng glass.
    I donít think my metal working skills are good enough for this yet, but maybe some day I will use the glass bags for a pattern.
    Anyway got the plugs glassed over and removed, the lids cut and the mount brackets made. I am working on hinges for the doors now and getting ready to paint.
    Eventally they will have leather covering the doors with a carving like the seat.
    Thanks for asking, sure feel more at home in here than in my HD groups. All they want to talk about is going fast.
    Steve
    Anyway here are a few shots, hope the links work.
    http://allshops.org/community/CommunityAlbum/9990274123392.jpg
    http://allshops.org/community/CommunityAlbum/9980274123899.jpg
    http://allshops.org/community/CommunityAlbum/9990274123899.jpg
    http://allshops.org/commu[...]392.jpghttp://allshops.org/commu[...]899.jpghttp://allshops.org/commu[...]899.jpg

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    stingshp

    Posts: 278
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    Steve
    I like the way you hung the bags low ,it doesn't have the bulky look that Dressers have from the back . If Glass gets the job done ,so be it . Actually would make a good Buck to get patterns from.
    I'm glad to see Baggers coming back in vogue . A lot more sheet metal to move around to change the look of Bike .

    We all like to Go fast ,But the Guys here like good lookin sheet metal when they're Goin fast .
    Stay after it Steve , Take care GordonB

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    mercmad

    Posts: 24
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    One my neibours is in the process of a restoring a 57' Broughm,and theres been much discussion on the subject of the roof where some clown scratched their idiot name into the roof.
    What would be the best way of removing a scratch like this?
    And how have you renovated the air springs? .The whole airbag set up is a poor design as compared with the Mercedes I normally work with.Mainly because the seal for the bellows doesn't appear to have enough area to hold tight on the bellows edge.

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    ross59

    Posts: 43
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    Yowza Ron,
    Have some ideas on the air springs. The main thing though....is it to remain original?
    My experience also deals with Mercedes though most likely older than your used to,the early to mid-60's 300SE series cars. Sorry don't remember the W#.
    You looking to go the original route or a sympathetic upgrade from the original materials that more likely are a product of the crude manufacturing methods of the period.
    Lincoln's of the 90's had a nice system also plagued by the bags abrading/wearing out by 100,000 miles. The aftermarket parts manufacturers had a replacement that was far batter than the OEM offered plus the price was about 20% less. Still not cheap but piece of mind for the expense incurred. The rest of their system, top notch. The weak link was their bags.
    Not sure on exactly what the Cadillac system has or how much and how original you want to go with your efforts.
    Good Health to You and Yours, Bob Lovell

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    ross59

    Posts: 43
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    Yowza Ron,
    Have some ideas on the air springs. The main thing though....is it to remain original?
    My experience also deals with Mercedes though most likely older than your used to,the early to mid-60's 300SE series cars. Sorry don't remember the W#.
    You looking to go the original route or a sympathetic upgrade from the original materials that more likely are a product of the crude manufacturing methods of the period.
    Lincoln's of the 90's had a nice system also plagued by the bags abrading/wearing out by 100,000 miles. The aftermarket parts manufacturers had a replacement that was far batter than the OEM offered plus the price was about 20% less. Still not cheap but piece of mind for the expense incurred. The rest of their system, top notch. The weak link was their bags.
    Not sure on exactly what the Cadillac system has or how much and how original you want to go with your efforts.
    Good Health to You and Yours, Bob Lovell

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    mercmad

    Posts: 24
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    Hi the next door's Caddy is undergoing a complete resto to stock @around $250,000 expected cost. There was some discussion the other day about adapting the firestone system to it as used by nearly everyone today,but the appearance is so unlike the stock set up it is unlikely to be used.
    BTW,I only work on pre 1978 mercedes So I'm very familiar with the 300SE air suspension system.
    As far a longevity is concerned,my own personal 300SEl has it's original bags,300,000 miles and 36 years Old!.

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    stingshp

    Posts: 278
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    Ron
    Off and On over the last 2 years i've been working the bugs out of Brougham #49 . The roof skin is stainless steel about .028" thick material . I guess the biggest question is how deep are the marks ?
    If they are shallow you can look through factory body manual and see the grit size they use to resurface skin and working with the grain sand it out . The big problem comes from uneven surface shine ,done correctly you'd have to regrain whole roof so it looks the same . The factory manual shows a procedure that is very involved .
    Two sources that have been a great help to me are : http://www.mastermindinc.net/index.htm
    Owner is Mike Rizzuto, He has a service that reconditions roof skin. Mike is very helpful and a wealth of information .
    The other is Yann Saunders website : http://www.car-nection.com/yann/Dbas_txt/Brg_chap.htm
    Yann's site is pretty much the end all of Cad. information -History ,Manuals,database .
    Hope this helps Ron .
    GordonB

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    ross59

    Posts: 43
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    Wink Yowza Ron,
    Gotta ask. Is the 300SE a six or one of the V8's. I always loved my 300SE sunroofed sedan while I was in my twenties.
    Bob Lovell

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    mercmad

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    Hi,I've owned 300SE's ( W112) which are a 6 ,the same engine as the gullwing,a few 300SEL 3.5's which are V8's and my present project which is a 300SEL 6.3. I overhaul the 6.3's for a living.Plus the W116 450SEL 6.9's. there atre not many of these cars around today and even vless people willing to spend time working on them. Even less people are prepared to spend money maintaining them either which is a pity because they are amongst the best cars Mercedes ever built.Certainly the fastest!
    We have website for owners here; www.m-100.cc

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    ross59

    Posts: 43
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    Wink Yowza Ron,
    You'll love this. Years back one of the guys I wrenched on old German and English cars with had a Gull/300SL. The engine was getting old and tired as was the owner. One day as I'm bringin'the pizza and Dr.P I noticed the 6 cylinder out and on casters. He motions me over to the car and he's pretty much finishing up getting the "new" engine positioned so he can make new mounts. The engine was crate Corvette motor along with an auto box. Being that he's my elder by at least 35 years I give him no grief, plus when this was being done the cars were rare but nowhere near as pricey.
    Motor is in within a week of chowing down the pizza and the radiator's bottom was modified to take a cooler. He put a ton of mileage on the car. I asked about the motor and tranny. He was in a good mood, and he informed me that parts alone to rebuild it proper were going to run anywhere btween $6-8000.00. I received the engine/tranny for some metalwork I did on the car.
    I had the motor sitting in the shop for about a year when I purchased a '59 220SE Ponton bodied sedan. The 220 motor was toasted as a rod had provided a new place for crankcase ventilation. Seemed like the engine would make the Ponton a nice sleeper. Over the next 2 years I manage to pickup the parts. His estimate on parts was about right. New rods, pistons, bearings, rings, injectors, etc. The list went on forever.
    Other things took priority in life and the car and engine sat. I got into Jags more, it sat.
    I married and moved, it sat. I set up a new shop and we had a child, it sat. During this time my friend passed away and the family sold the car as they had no clue to my whereabouts.
    I'm at a MB show in Mass. one year and I see the car in new paint but with same Corvette motor, definitely same car. No owner around, I leave my card asking him to call if he's looking for the motor. A message is waiting for me when I get home.
    I call, we talk, yes he wants to buy the motor but he does not want any of the parts that go with it as he says he can get them cheaper. I explain that I have no need for the parts if I don't have the motor. I also explain that the parts are ALL genuine Mercedes-Benz parts
    and have the receipts and parts are in the original boxes. He's not interested, tells me it's my problem and offeres me $5000.00 for the engine. I decline. I tell him the value of his vehicle will increase astronomically if he swaps out the Vette engine for the original unit. He's not talking anything higher than $5k. He also seems to have a personal pronoun problem as he keeps referring to the engine as his, since it "belongs" to the car he bought.
    A year goes by and he calls my house. We talk and now he's willing to go to $6000.00 I tell him I've got more than that in parts alone. Exasperated with this yahoo I tell him my plans for the engine. I then tell him that the next time he calls I will "entertain" one offer from him and only one, so he best make it his best.
    The engine is sitting next to the Ponton as we speak, I'e yet to hear from him and it's going in either this sedan or possible a coupe, not sure yet. Once the SS1 is back on its own 4 wheels I'll fit the motor, then I'll pull it and get the engine work done. Should be a great sleeper.
    Later, Bob Lovell

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    ross59

    Posts: 43
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    Wink Yowza Ron,
    You'll love this. Years back one of the guys I wrenched on old German and English cars with had a Gull/300SL. The engine was getting old and tired as was the owner. One day as I'm bringin'the pizza and Dr.P I noticed the 6 cylinder out and on casters. He motions me over to the car and he's pretty much finishing up getting the "new" engine positioned so he can make new mounts. The engine was crate Corvette motor along with an auto box. Being that he's my elder by at least 35 years I give him no grief, plus when this was being done the cars were rare but nowhere near as pricey.
    Motor is in within a week of chowing down the pizza and the radiator's bottom was modified to take a cooler. He put a ton of mileage on the car. I asked about the motor and tranny. He was in a good mood, and he informed me that parts alone to rebuild it proper were going to run anywhere btween $6-8000.00. I received the engine/tranny for some metalwork I did on the car.
    I had the motor sitting in the shop for about a year when I purchased a '59 220SE Ponton bodied sedan. The 220 motor was toasted as a rod had provided a new place for crankcase ventilation. Seemed like the engine would make the Ponton a nice sleeper. Over the next 2 years I manage to pickup the parts. His estimate on parts was about right. New rods, pistons, bearings, rings, injectors, etc. The list went on forever.
    Other things took priority in life and the car and engine sat. I got into Jags more, it sat.
    I married and moved, it sat. I set up a new shop and we had a child, it sat. During this time my friend passed away and the family sold the car as they had no clue to my whereabouts.
    I'm at a MB show in Mass. one year and I see the car in new paint but with same Corvette motor, definitely same car. No owner around, I leave my card asking him to call if he's looking for the motor. A message is waiting for me when I get home.
    I call, we talk, yes he wants to buy the motor but he does not want any of the parts that go with it as he says he can get them cheaper. I explain that I have no need for the parts if I don't have the motor. I also explain that the parts are ALL genuine Mercedes-Benz parts
    and have the receipts and parts are in the original boxes. He's not interested, tells me it's my problem and offeres me $5000.00 for the engine. I decline. I tell him the value of his vehicle will increase astronomically if he swaps out the Vette engine for the original unit. He's not talking anything higher than $5k. He also seems to have a personal pronoun problem as he keeps referring to the engine as his, since it "belongs" to the car he bought.
    A year goes by and he calls my house. We talk and now he's willing to go to $6000.00 I tell him I've got more than that in parts alone. Exasperated with this yahoo I tell him my plans for the engine. I then tell him that the next time he calls I will "entertain" one offer from him and only one, so he best make it his best.
    The engine is sitting next to the Ponton as we speak, I'e yet to hear from him and it's going in either this sedan or possible a coupe, not sure yet. Once the SS1 is back on its own 4 wheels I'll fit the motor, then I'll pull it and get the engine work done. Should be a great sleeper.
    Later, Bob Lovell

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    mercmad

    Posts: 24
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    ah,but you will find that 300SL engine,although it's the same as fitted to 300SE is different. It lays on it's side in the gull wing .It requires a seperate oil tank and the injection will prove to be a real headache for anyone unfamiliar with it.
    If you want to sell you can email me direct ( briskiwi@bigpond.com.au) and we can discuss engine numbers,prices etc. I have a buyer right now who will pay the right price without BS'ing you.I'm about to go and see him so get in touch and it may be beneficial for both of you.
    Cheer! Ron B.

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