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392hemi

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Ask any beginning metalshaping question here.

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qfortune

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I want to recreate the new VW beatle body using aluminum. The catch is the body is going on a 4-wheel bike. Where do I start? I have never done anything like this (shaping metal) and the only way this bike is going to have an impact is if it looks like the VW bug. and the only way I can see that happening is by doing the body out of sheet metal. I know you can start with a pattern or buck. but where do I really start?

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admin

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I would say you are crazy to try something so bold as this (your first project) if you are an abolute rank beginner -- but I've seen guys complete some incredible projects that were begun with little or no experience or knowledge.

Where to begin?

Hmmm -- well tell us a little about what you have available to you. Do you have a shop or access to one? Any tools of any kind? Gas torch?

Do you have any friends with shops and/or expertise? In other words if you learend to shape panels -- do you have a friend who can some over and weld them for you until you learn to weld?

Or do you know how to weld? (aluminum)

I looked at your web site -- so by four wheeled bike I assume you mean a human powered bike.. (??)

Are you going full size? Are you going to include headlights, bumpers, windshield etc., etc., etc. Will the doors and hood and trunk need to open? Will there be a floor? What about dash. seats and so on. This will make a big difference in the amount of ability to finish such a project.

Terry

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kev67

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Question I have heard a lot about heat shrinking and seem to remember a few things about it but was wondering if you could give me the low down on it. I don't have a shrinking hammer or Pullmax etc. I have tried some tuck shrinks but really don't know if I'm doing it right. A little guidance would be appreciated.

Kev

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metalshapers

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Kev wrote:
I have heard a lot about heat shrinking and seem to remember a few things about it but was wondering if you could give me the low down on it. I don't have a shrinking hammer or Pullmax etc. I have tried some tuck shrinks but really don't know if I'm doing it right. A little guidance would be appreciated. -- Kev
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Kev,

There are two types of heat shrinking. One is where you use heat in small spots which will cause the metal to shrink a litle when it cools. This is what the term heat shrinking usually refers to. The same process can be used with a shrinking disk. John Kelly explains the disk in this article:
http://metalshapers.org/1[...]ex.html

Heat can also be used to aid in shrinking when when doing tuck shrinking.

We are finishing up on a tuck shrinking article that will back on the site before long that may help clear up some things for you.

Can you post pics of what you have done so far?

Would someone like to go over heat shrinking or find one of our old Yahoo posts and re-post it here on the site?

Terry C.

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kev67

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Smile Terry,

I had a look at the shrinking disk stuff and ended up making one. It was a little heavier than the one mentioned (dictated by supply of material) but it worked amazingly well. I had tried a little heat shrinking (torch) but got no where near the results I did with the disk.
(Of course I don't know if I was doing the torch thing right or not!)
I'm working on some patch pannels for my truck door and have started taking some pics as I go along. I will go through them and pick out some to post.

Thanks much for the info

Kev

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unklian

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What thickness did you use ?
I turned on out of a solid bar last year.
Looks excellent,doesn't work.
It's too stiff,so it won't flex enough to create a large enough contact area.

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kev67

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Ian,
I used a piece of ~1/8 inch stainless steel. The one I had looked at called for 18 gauge but I couldn't put my hands on anything other than the 1/8 (actually a little thinner than 1/8 but pretty close). It's a tad heavy but it works very well. It doesn't flex obviously however as your high spot goes down your contact enlarges until everthing smooths out. I was working a piece today (door skin for a 1/2 ton) and found that although at some points the metal had appeared not to have shrunk all that much it still hammered and shaped as I wanted it too. I'm still experimenting with it and learning as I go but so far so good. It also worked very well at dropping some high spots I had in the center of the door pannel with no hammering. I think so far that the best way to go with it is bit by bit - a little shrinking, quenching, shaping and then back to the shrinking etc.

Kev

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renegade44

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I am looking for a tool to bend tubing. I have found several benders but they all have a "set" radius of 6"-12". I need a radius of from 1'-4'. I saw what i was looking for on the Discovery Channel show Monster House. It had a larger hand wheel and three rollers to run the metal through.

Anybody have an idea what its called or where to find one?

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unklian

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Cool I think they are called "Ring Rollers".
http://www.shopoutfitters[...]238.htm

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kev67

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Terry,

Sorry I didn't get back to you sooner but things have gotten real busy of late. Anyway, here are a few pics of the work I've been doing. So far I have fabricated 4 pieces for the drivers door of my 1980 GMC truck - both inner bottom corners, inner bottom lip and lower half of the outer door skin. All welding was done with a Smith torch and a MW201 tip. Gas pressures set at about 3psi for both Ox and Acet. I am working on primer and undercoat right now but was very happy with the fact that when I started the entire door, top to bottom was bodyfill and about 3/8 inch deep in some spots. Now there is only a light skim along the weld seam and a light skim on an old weld seam. Other than that I was able to work the metal and get everything fairly smooth. It won't win any awards but I'm pleased with the result for a first attempt.

Hope this works,

Kev






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    admin

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    Kev wrote: It won't win any awards but I'm pleased with the result for a first attempt.
    Hope this works. -- Kev
    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    Kev,

    Worked just fine. However I did reduce the size of the photos down to 400 pixels wide (they just view a little better in the forums at that size or smaller). I also "added the image" which displays the imaged directly in the message:

    http://allshops.org/cgi-b[...]ssages&

    Unfortunately you can only use the "add image" feature after you have attached them by editing the post.

    How about sending a pic of the little Smith torch? They call it the "Versa Torch" now and Smith's web site doesn't show it very well at all.

    Your corner piece looks good -- I can can't even see the weld. Did you take any pics of how you shaped it?

    Terry C

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    rrohrich

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    Hi Guys, I tried searching the old posts but couldn't find an answer to this.

    Is there a good method you guys use for cutting perfect large circles in 3003 .063 or 16 guage 1020, something in the 3.0" to 4.5" range?

    I'm making a hammerform for a simple round exhaust end cap but can't seem to get a really clean circle to start with. I've used a large holesaw and a knockout punch to make circles but I figured there is bound to be a secret that I'm to dense to have discovered Anyone have a good method that doesn't involve a 6 ton machine being dragged into my apartment? LOL

    Thanks,

    Rich Rohrich

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    admin

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    Rich wrote:
    Is there a good method you guys use for cutting perfect large circles in 3003 .063 or 16 guage 1020, something in the 3.0" to 4.5" range?
    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    I wondered why Rich asked this question a second time after all the answers on Yahoo -- then it dawned on me... Rick was looking for an answer here in the MSA forums and probably doesn't read the Yahoo list. (The forum gets forwarded to our old Yahoo list for email distribution). Sorry Rich -- we weren't ignoring you ...



    So here are the answers from Yahoo posted here in the forum complete with Stan's photo so weveryone can see it...

    >>It is simple, just clamp metal, set size, turn crank and viola a perfect circle.
    >>
    Stan.............


    ==================================================================================
    OK: Here is my $.02 take on this. I would use a jigsaw and the cutting guide attachment. Most have a hole for using it as a conpass. Just get a couple of pieces of 1/2" plywood and scribe the circle on it, then set the cutting attachment saw the blade is the desired distance from the pivot point. Clamp your material between the plywood and saw the circles. YOu may have to reset your clamps to get a complete circle but at least you won't have a 6 ton press in your living room.
    Roger

    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    Start by scribing a perfect circle, then rough cut to approximately
    1/16 or closer. Use a belt sander or grinder to trim to the line.
    --


    Alan Lapp
    -------------------------

    ================================================================

    Do you have at least a small lathe?
    If so, stack several rough blanks and a plate on the end with a centerdrilled hole for the tailstock center, and against another plate with a stud in the 3 jaw chuck. force them together real tight and take light cuts. I've done this, and it works, making them very uniform...
    OR:

    If you have a small hydraulic die forming setup, you could blank those using that method.
    Make yourself up a small cutting die, and harden it and blank them that way. See Susan Kingsleys book on hydraulic die forming for jewelers and metalsmiths.
    Or
    You could make up a jig with a small bearing and a clamp for use on the disk grinder.
    Or
    If you have a rotary table, you could put a stack of flat blanks on it and clamp it down.
    There are certainly many more ways to do this, and I'm just an amateur to sheetmetal work, but I was a prototype aerospace machinist for over a decade, so I guess I'm partial to making chips....
    Hope your solution is a simple one!
    Good luck,
    Ken

    ====================================================================

    Well, I almost had an answer for you, until you ruled out the 6 ton
    machine. Too bad.
    Because like any problem with metal, if you have enough time, money,
    and space, its easy!


    They make nice circle cutting shears for sheet metal, hand crank, like
    a pexto no 299- it will cut circles from 3 1/4" to 24" in diameter, up
    to around 16ga steel, they weigh around 200lbs. All the major sheet
    metal companies made them, and there are lots available used, as well
    as new. You can cut perfect circles all day long on one.


    But the best hand technique, for the least money, is gonna be scribe
    your circle with a pair of dividers, and cut em out with a big pair of
    snips. After a hundred or so, you get pretty accurate. Worst case
    scenario, after you cut them you round em up a little more on a 12"
    disc sander with 60 grit alumina zirconium sandpaper. You need a pair
    of full size 18" long bulldog snips to cut 16ga, not those wimpy
    aviation snips. But with a little practice, it works fine. If the snips
    deform the metal, tap em flat again with a soft blow on some kind of
    anvil type thing.


    ries

    ===================================================================






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    rrohrich

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    From Terry C:

    I wondered why Rich asked this question a second time after all the answers on Yahoo -- then it dawned on me... Rick was looking for an answer here in the MSA forums and probably doesn't read the Yahoo list. (The forum gets forwarded to our old Yahoo list for email distribution). Sorry Rich -- we weren't ignoring you ...


    LOL I learn something new everyday, never thought about the Yahoo list

    Thanks for the answers guys they will help a lot.

    I'll start watching the Yahoo list as well as the forum. In the mean time I'll go hammer out a dunce cap from 3003 to have on hand for next time.



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    kev67

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    Terry,

    No I didn't take any pics during the shaping. I did two corners (front and rear). One I hammered out of a single piece and made to cuts at all. Basicly I streached the folds and went from there. The other, I had been looking at the piece on forming the floor pan on this site, and decided I'd try making a cut and welding it back together to form the corner. This is the one in the photo.

    Here I have included some photos of my torch (as requested), a gas door I fabricated and a piece that I was practicing on with the shrinking disk that I made. It's a little hard to see but the piece was initially formed over a piece of 2 inch round stainless steel and then the ends were brought down to form a 90 degree angle with the shrinking disk. I was very pleased with the way it turned out.

    My next step is to fabricate a cab corner for my truck (a 1980 GMC 4X4) and I should have it back on the road.

    Any tips on the cab corner would be appreciated.

    Kev












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    admin

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    Kev wrote: It's a little hard to see but the piece was initially formed over a piece of 2 inch round stainless steel and then the ends were brought down to form a 90 degree angle with the shrinking disk.

    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    Kev,

    I never would have thought to use the shrinking disk to make the 90 degree bend. Did you hammer the edge over first, which caused wrinkles and then worked over the wrinkles with the disk? -- That's interesting... I would have just hammered the edge over and whacked down the wrinkles.

    BTW -- I edited your post and added the photos in. http://allshops.org/cgi-b[...]ssages&

    I also reduced the size of the photos to fit in the window (400 pixles or less is best)

    When you said you used the 201 tip -- I though you were using the little Smith "aircraft" torch (AW1A) that has the needle valves located at front end for one-hand flame adjustment and type "A" (aircraft) fittings. Smith doesn't call it an "aircraft" torch any more -- instead they call it "light duty".



    I didn't realize that the larger handle you have (below)the (AW10A)also uses the same tip.


    Terry C

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    admin

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    Kev wrote:
    My next step is to fabricate a cab corner for my truck (a 1980 GMC 4X4) and I should have it back on the road. Any tips on the cab corner would be appreciated. -- Kev

    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    Kev,

    I assume you know that repops are available for under $20. However, sometimes it is more trouble to use a repop that it is to make one from scratch (and of course you don't learn much from buying a repop).

    It looks that's a fairly easy piece to make. The back portion looks like mostly a little hammerform work. The side may have enough contour to do a little wheeling first and then tip the edge. Or you might bend the edge in a brake and shrink it with a hand or kick shrinker... or tuck shrink it if you don't have a shrinker. If there is a little crown on the panel you can put that in with a hammer and dolly.

    The corner can be shaped with a curved T-dolly, a round stake, or maybe a round-over beader die such as Ron Covell sells:


    Is this what it looks like?:



    Terry C

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    kev67

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    Terry,

    After I read your reply I actually went and had a look at my torch again. The actual model is a Smith CW-5A. The tips that I have are MW201 and MW205 and the cutting tip is an MC12-1. I got is second hand from a friend who runs a local welding shop and it has been a great working little torch. It's a little hard getting tips for it as Victor is the main torch these days so there is only one place here that carries the Smith line, and they have to order them in.

    Yes I know you can by the repops, when ever I'm talking to friends here about the project they all say "You know you can buy ....". My response is always "Yeah but that isn't as much fun" and also for $40 I got a 4X8 sheet of steel. The cost to buy the repops would be a lot more and they may not exactly fit what I have to replace. Like with the cab corner there is some rot on the inside edge which I am going to replace as well. I don't think the repop would reach around that far.

    Each piece is a bit of a challange for several reasons though. One is that this is all quite new to me so I am figuring things out as I go. Next is that I don't have a wheel, but I would like to build one this winter. I don't have a shrinking machine so I have been experimenting with ways around that. One is the shrinking disk which seems to work quite well. I also made a tuck tool. I have been using that in conjunction with the torch in that I make my tucks, heat a hump to a nice deep red and then tap it flat again and then quench the piece. I have found that with the "cold" metal surrounding the "hot" metal the tuck flattens out without as much expansion to the rest of the metal.

    I'm making the cab corner in two pieces (side and rear) and putting the weld seam at the rear. I am putting a 90 degree bend on the rear of the side piece and using the above method. I'll include some pics later.

    Kev

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    admin

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    Kev wrote: Terry,

    After I read your reply I actually went and had a look at my torch again. The actual model is a Smith CW-5A. The tips that I have are MW201 and MW205 and the cutting tip is an MC12. +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    Well duh.... I guess they put the prefexes on the part numbers for a reason (I was ignoring the prefixes and didn't look up far enough on the Smith page..http://www.smithequipment[...]les.htm So you have the "medium" duty torch.

    Not having all the larger equipment can be a blessing in disguise. By learning the "hard way" you will probably pick up some tricks that you may have never discovered otherwise. Although some of the methods you come up with may not really be the "best" way to do it... you will still get the job done and those tricks you learn may come in real handy some day.

    Here's a suggestion... on the next project, try it without the heating and quenching. Work on hammering the tucks cold. Or if you need a little help just heat the tucks a little (not even red) to make them go down a little easier -- but skip the quenching.

    Once you get the hang of tuck shrinking, you may find that the tucks hammer down a lot easier than you realize. Quenching tends to harden the metal a little, although that may not be a problem on your parts.

    Terry C

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    kev67

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    Terry,

    That's why I like this site, good ideas and things to try. I have never been one to think that there is one way and only one way to do things. I usually take a good hard look (and some trial and error) to find what works best for me. I athere some kind of sequence to tucking and hammering? I have looked a few times for the "Tuck Shrinking Basics" info but it doesn't seem to be on yet. One of the questions I was thinking about was which was quicker - to heat or not to heat? I had tried not heating and seemed to get better results heating but maybe I was missing something in the "not heating" trials.

    As far as learning the hard way I'm O.K. with that. I have always been a fan of things old - old tools, old ways, old skills etc. Everything these days seems to be fast, slick, streamlined etc without the need (or as much anyway) of patience, practice and purpose. A friend told me the other day that I should have a Mig welder because it was fast and even a five year old could learn it 10 minutes. But then I was talking with an "old" body man who said (with a somewhat dreamy smile) "you're doing things the old fashioned way" and then we talked about "the old days for a long time. I liked that a lot. The other thing is I've been working at welding aluminum with the torch and am having some success. It will take a little more practice than the steel did but it's coming. The funny thing is that two guys from the local welding shop (who have been in the welding business for some 20 years or so) still don't know whether to believe that I can do it with the torch. It's kinda fun!

    Anyway, enough of my rant. More pics of the cab corner to follow and I will try the cold hammering on the other side.

    Thanks,
    Kev

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    392hemi

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    Kev wrote:

    I have looked a few times for the "Tuck Shrinking Basics" info but it doesn't seem to be on yet.

    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    Kev, I've seen a recent draft -- and it is getting closer to being finished.

    I think you will find that once you get the feel for tuck shrinking -- you won't need the heat.

    BTW, what metal are you using?

    Terry

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    kev67

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    Terry wrote:
    BTW, what metal are you using?

    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    Terry,

    I'm using 20 guage steel for these parts. I'm thinking of making some floor pans this winter and figure I'll move up to 16 or 18 guage for that.

    Kev

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    392hemi

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    Kev wrote: I'm using 20 guage steel for these parts. I'm thinking of making some floor pans this winter and figure I'll move up to 16 or 18 guage for that. Kev
    **************************************************************************


    Kev,

    I know this is going to sound strange -- but 19 guage would actually be easier to work that 20 gauge. Even though it is thicker -- in the same grade of steel the 19 gauge is less springy than 20 gauge. That is because there is a certain amount of material on the surface that is hardened more than what is in the center. That hardened surface thickness is the same whether the steel is 20 gauge or 14 gauge -- so the 20 gauge has a much higher percentage of hardened steel in relation to the softer material. When I first noticed this I thought I was imagining things. The 20 gauge just seemed to be very springy. I told this to an engineer at a steel and he explained it to me. I know 19 gauge is difficult to find -- but you might ask around.

    Terry C

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    kev67

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    Terry,

    Now that's interesting! I get my steel from a friend who owns / operates a local welding shop so I would imagine that if it can be found he could find it. I might look into that for some other winter projects as I have been thinking about trying my hand at sheet metal art. I've always dabbled in drawing, painting, carving etc to it would be a good challange to move into yet another medium.

    Kev

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    kev67

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    O.K.

    I'm going to try putting up some pics of the cab corner thus far. Things have actually been going well, just time consuming trying to get everything figured out for myself. I think if I were going to do another I might try it in three pieces instead of just two. I'm in the process of doing the finish hammering now and working out some of the details.

    Now if I could only figure out how to add pics right into these messages I'd be all set.

    Picture 1 - Shaped , shrunk and ready to trim
    Picture 2 - Last test fit for piece #2
    Picture 3 - Spot Welded
    Picture 4 / 5 - Ready for finishing
    Piture 6 - Inside of weld seem after hammering

    Kev









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    unklian

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    It's a little awkward.You have to open the pic,right click,
    select "properties",copy the address,then click on "add an image",
    and paste the address into the popup.




    The advantage is you can poition pics with your text.
    It's not difficult once you've done it.

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    kev67

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    Now that makes sense. It's kinda like tuck shrinking - once someone shows you the fine print it's fairly simple. Thanks.

    Kev

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    dvalj83

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    Question hi,

    what is better to fill my shot bag with, sand or #9 bird shot... thanks Dan

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    unklian

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    That's another open ended debate,either will work.
    Personally,I prefer Lead Shot.

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    66tiger

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    Ian is right, this has been debated for a very long time, and I think it comes down to a few factors: what's available to you, what's your budget, how long do you expect it to last, how concerned are you about health issues.

    If you can't find lead shot where you live, you'll have to choose something else. Likewise, if lead shot is too expensive, pick something else. Lead shot will probably last for as long as you want to use the bag, but how long will the bag last before you have to replace it? Lead shot will produce dust and if you have replace the bag and try to reuse the shot, you end up exposing yourself to the dust.

    You'll notice that I didn't ask "How well do you want it to work?" There have been any number of folks here and elsewhere that have used sand, lead shot, and steel shot with (apparently) similar success. At the time I had mine made, all I knew about was what I read in Ron Fournier's book, so I went out and bought some #9 lead shot and filled the bag with it. If I were to make or buy a bag today, I'd go with steel shot and avoid all the issues with lead. The only reason I think I'd avoid sand is that it seems like it would draw moisture and cause the leather to rot out. Of course, that's just my paranoid thinking at work, and others who've actually tried it could tell you whether there's any need for concern.

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    andy01

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    Funny thing. My father was really into welding, machining and all kinds of metal fabrication. I never had an interest. He is gone, but now my son has a huge interest in metal fabrication, mostly inspired from various TV shows.

    I want to help, but have no background and not to sure where to start.

    Thinking of buying some sheet metal and some hammers etc for him so he can at least start by making a bowl or something.

    I'll read this site through, but any advise on tools to start out with and information on materials and some real easy beginner projects would be really appreciated.

    Thanks in advance...the struggling dad.

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    oldgoaly

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    If you use sand it will break down to a dust, this dust has been linked
    to lung problems, i have a old canvas sand bag i made years ago, i just
    use to steady panels. i would say stay away from sand/canvas, go for the
    leather and shot, i have lead shot(made nearby) and have no experience
    with steel.
    tt

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    choppperguy

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    When I started out, I purchased a few hammers or mallets (the Delrin plastic ones found on Ron Fourniers site), a Beater bag to hammer into and some dollies. I would recommend getting some beginning metal shaping books, they will have several beginning projects like Tear drops and things.

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    oldgoaly

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    Andy,
    i have an 11 yr old, he and i are working on a science project together, "Metalshaping"
    Basicly he is hammering out bowls 6" diameter 1" deep, seeing which metal forms easier.
    i have a sheet metal shop so we have some metal and tools to work with. He is starting out
    doing one by hand on the shot bag, then after he gets the hang of i will let him use the
    pullmax machine( he has used it before) i posted the on the yahoo site already, when he
    gets done i will add them to my projects album. If someone is nearby a visit to see some
    of their tools will give you many ideas, you can make just about any tool or buy them.
    Good luck!
    tt



    Attached Files:

  • jat05a1.jpg (50 kb)

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    joeym

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    Hi All,

    I just tried hammer forming a heart-shaped piece of 22 gauge steel. (It seemed appropriate with Valentine's day being next week.) I got the general shape down, but the edges are full of wrinkles. I know that I should have been able to shrink the wrinkles away, but I'm not sure how to do that. How do you guys reduce wrinkles in metal work that is only about a half inch deep? I don't think I can hammer shrink them on a head....I anticipated this being a learning experience, so I took some pictures along the way. Please take a look at this album and offer some suggestions/options.

    Thank you,

    Joey Maier

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    unklian

    Posts: 517
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    Let's try this link.

    http://allshops.org/cgi-b[...]5396635

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    unklian

    Posts: 517
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    You've probably figured out you've got too much material,
    that's where the wrinkles come from.
    Here is one of Terry's albums of Tucking,you can also search to find others.
    http://allshops.org/cgi-b[...]8828287

    You should be able to get the edges to lay down flat,
    but may find there is too much material at the tip.

    Home Depot,or similar,should have MDF in 2' x 4' sheets for a reasonable price.
    Then you won't have to worry about your hammer forms breaking.

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    ghiafab

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    Yes...too much material maybe, but also, it looks like you might need a thicker hammerform? The wrinkles need to be supported by the form, and you need to keep hitting the metal until the wrinkles get smaller and smaller. I did a similar shape with about a 1/2" flange a few years ago. I was able to get it real smooth over a wood hammer form. If I remember right, I used heat (blue) on the most stubborn wrinkles.

    John www.ghiaspecialties.com

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    joeym

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    it looks like you might need a thicker hammerform? The wrinkles need to be supported by the form, and you need to keep hitting the metal until the wrinkles get smaller and smaller. I did a similar shape with about a 1/2" flange a few years ago. I was able to get it real smooth over a wood hammer form.
    Thanks, I'll try it again with a thicker form. I remember thinking that it would be nice to have a head/dolly the diameter I needed. Obviously, a thicker form could be hammered on the same way (hence the name.)
    If I remember right, I used heat (blue) on the most stubborn wrinkles.

    That reminds me of this thread, where Kevin Redden was talking about using a torch to heat up the metal tucks before tapping them flat. Am I correct to assume that this is NOT an option while the metal is in a wood or MDF hammer form? (...unless, of course I want to turn my hammer form into a charcoal briquet!!!)

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    ghiafab

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    As far as I remember, I did burn up my hammerform.

    John www.ghiaspecialties.com

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    unklian

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    If the job justified it,hammer forms can be made out of Aluminum or Steel.
    MDF and plywood are much more common.



    But sometimes they catch on fire.

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    oldgoaly

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    to help a hammerform from burning, add a strip of metal to the edge(if thats where you need
    heat) the form will burn but nlike it is exposed to an open flame. Joey, your doing fine!
    another way is to notch(small slits) and weld this takes up some of the extra metal.

    tt

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    metalworks

    Posts: 6
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    Joe,

    After looking at the pictures I can see you are not "pulling" the flange down equally. When hammerforming you need to start at the tangent of the bend and go around the whole part equally. Or put a bit more into the tighter areas but keep the draw pretty close to balanced around the whole part. Drive the material down and having it be pulled against the form not necessarily driven into the form. Areas where the material tends to gather more need to have the ruffle bent back up and sometimes lightly worked with a hammer against a back stick or dolly to pershrink them a bit before continuing to move them down. With practice you can move some of the material from the tight gather areas to either side where it can cope with it better. Even though the material can be planished against the form, the use of the title hammerform causes people to think you should hammer the material against it the whole process.

    Use a top clamp plate to retain the part and restrict any forces getting to the top surface. Always use a corking tool with a narrow enough contact to be pushing the metal down right next to the form. The form should be tall (thick) enough to allow you to wash the entire flange down the side including some length for trim. At the tighter areas the flange will get much longer since the gathered (shrunk) metal will add length to the flange. Ideally (won't happen in real world) the process would look like a joggle the whole way down. In other words the remainder of the flange not being corked down would remain parallel to the top of the part and as you proceed around the part it would slowly be rolled down until the flange is complete. Having the extra material stay horizontal offers the stiffness or resistance to force the ruffles in on themselves. This lets you control the wrinkles the whole way down and they never get out of manageable control. In 22ga. mild steel especially if it is AK material you can easily pull a flange over an inch. You don't need any heat.
    Rick

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    timstach

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    JoeyM,
    I just took a closer look at the heart photos. When you removed the shape from the form have you taken a dolly to further shrink the tucks? Try to use a dolly with a similar curve on the inside of the shape. If you have one, use a plastic mallet to continue to work the tucks down. Be careful to not let the tucks fold over themselves. If you only have steel hammers it can still work just use softer blows. You want to avoid stretching the material at this point.With the heart off the hammer form you can use heat if needed to work the hardest area just use caution to not over heat it.
    Good luck and as was said in chat do not give up on this cause it looks like you are close to finishing it.....

    Tim

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    timmo1949

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    Question Hello, ladies and gentlemen;

    I am trying to find the status/whereabouts of Dave (David G.) Brown of Greenbay, Wisconsin. He doesn't owe me any money, I've just had several people ask me what's become of him.

    If you prefer, you can e-mail me directly at timmo_1949@suscom.net

    Thank you all.

    Tim Smith

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    tcseacliff

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    I just realized I should post this in the auto body forum,but I guess metal is metal. I want to fix a dent on my car door.the dent is a crease and a low spot from an suv rubbing on the door. My instinct tells me to move the metal in reverse. dolly off I think. I have always second guessed myself in the past. should i hold the dolly inside the door right on the crease and hammer from the outside to the center. or dolly behind the crease and just hammer on the dolly to flatten the crease or the dolly outside the door and tap the crease back out hammer on dolly? the door in this spot is flat. and I know if i do it wrong,it will be stretched.

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    ghiafab

    Posts: 95
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    Hi Terrence,

    Here is an album showing one way to fix a dent:

    http://allshops.org/cgi-bin/community/communityalbums.cgi?action=openalbum&albumid=9980121727059

    And an article with links to other articles:

    http://metalshapers.org/101/jkelly/index.html

    In my opinion, worrying about stretching the metal can make you too cautious. In order to remove a dent, you will usually do a little stretching in the smoothing phase. Pretty easy to fix, and you can go back and repeat various steps many times until you get it right.

    John www.ghiaspecialties.com

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    norluth

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    How would I go about finding a class to get started? I'm in my 40's, so a a vocational school isn't really an option. I'm thinking more like night school. I'm in Philadelphia, PA.

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    ghiafab

    Posts: 95
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    Here is a link to classes:

    http://metalshapers.org/links/training/

    John www.ghiaspecialties.com

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